Harris and Trump Choose Podcast Over Legacy Media in Race

Harris and Trump Choose Podcast Over Legacy Media in Race \ Newslooks \ Washington DC \ Mary Sidiqi \ Evening Edition \ Legacy media outlets like The New York Times and NPR are struggling to secure interviews with Kamala Harris and Donald Trump during the 2024 general election campaign. Instead, both candidates are turning to popular podcasts like “Call Her Daddy” and “Bussin’ With the Boys,” allowing them to reach niche audiences. This shift reflects the growing importance of targeted media, especially in a fast-paced, shortened campaign season where candidates prioritize platforms that align with their electoral strategy.

Candidates Bypass Legacy Media for Podcasts: Quick Look

• Legacy Media Rejected: Despite requests, outlets like NPR, The New York Times, and 60 Minutes have been bypassed by both Kamala Harris and Donald Trump.
• Podcast Popularity: Harris appeared on “Call Her Daddy” and “All the Smoke,” while Trump favored “Flagrant” and “Bussin’ With the Boys.”
• Targeted Audiences: Podcasts allow candidates to reach specific voter segments in a relaxed, friendly environment, avoiding potential missteps.
• Political Landscape: The shift highlights a broader trend of candidates using nontraditional media to connect with younger and more diverse audiences.

Deep Look:

In a significant departure from the traditional campaign playbook, both Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump have increasingly sidestepped legacy media outlets like The New York Times, NPR, and PBS during the 2024 general election. Instead, they are prioritizing appearances on popular podcasts, where they can more precisely target key voter demographics. This shift underscores the growing importance of new media formats, particularly podcasts, in shaping modern political campaigns.

Among the legacy outlets that have been passed over in their efforts to interview Harris and Trump are The Washington Post, PBS NewsHour, and 60 Minutes. Traditionally, interviews with such outlets were considered essential campaign stops. Yet both candidates have opted for newer, less formal media platforms to shape their messages. Harris recently sat down with Alex Cooper on the hugely popular “Call Her Daddy” podcast and discussed Bay Area basketball on “All the Smoke.” Trump, on the other hand, avoided 60 Minutes but engaged with “Flagrant” and “Bussin’ With the Boys,” shows that appeal to younger male audiences.

Harris continued this trend by appearing on Shannon Sharpe’s podcast, “Club Shay Shay,” during a visit to Georgia, further emphasizing the strategic importance of podcasts in this truncated campaign season. These appearances are designed to reach specific voter blocs, bypassing the broad—and often older—audiences of traditional news outlets.

The use of podcasts in political campaigns is a reflection of the changing media landscape. With podcasts doubling in listenership since 2016, they offer a form of “narrowcasting” that allows candidates to communicate directly to niche audiences. For example, Harris’s appearance on “Call Her Daddy” allowed her to connect with a predominantly young female audience, while Trump’s interviews on “Flagrant” and “Bussin’ With the Boys” gave him direct access to young male voters.

“Podcasts let you talk to a specific audience with a particular frame of mind,” said Tom Bettag, a journalism professor at the University of Maryland. This focus on targeted messaging helps candidates avoid potential gaffes that might dominate news cycles in more traditional interviews, where questions can be harder to control.

There have been exceptions to this trend. Harris recently participated in a CNN town hall and sat down with NBC’s Hallie Jackson. Yet overall, the 2024 campaign reflects a significant shift away from legacy media, as noted by political columnist John Heilemann, who observed that traditional media is becoming a “dying beast railing against the diminishment of its status.”

This shift has not gone unnoticed by journalists, who argue that the more rigorous scrutiny offered by traditional outlets is important for voters. “I think Americans deserve to hear the candidates have their ideas challenged,” said Eric Marrapodi, NPR’s vice president for news programming. Traditional journalists lament that legacy outlets provide a public service by holding candidates accountable, something that softer, more informal podcast interviews often lack.

But from the perspective of campaign strategists, avoiding such scrutiny may be precisely the point. Legacy news outlets don’t have the same reach they once did, and their audiences skew older. With traditional media’s declining viewership—Nielsen reported that CNN’s prime-time audience has dropped to 924,000 in 2024 from 1.24 million in 2016—the candidates see greater value in connecting with younger audiences through new media.

Once a staple of any campaign, a 60 Minutes interview near election time was considered crucial. However, this year, Trump not only bypassed the show, he criticized how its interview with Harris was edited. Instead, both he and Harris have turned to platforms that allow them to engage directly with voters, sidestepping the legacy media’s gatekeeping role.

Trump’s strategy, in particular, has revolved around using friendly venues. He continues to appear frequently on Fox News, despite occasional complaints about the network’s coverage. Fox remains critical for Trump, and Democrats, including Harris, also recognize its importance. Harris’s contentious interview with Fox News’ Bret Baier even sparked a “Saturday Night Live” parody, and the campaign has continued to use Fox for outreach to skeptical audiences.

Television networks aren’t alone in their declining influence. Newspaper circulation has also plummeted. Pew Research reported that Sunday newspaper circulation dropped from 37.8 million in 2016 to 20.9 million in 2022. Many newspapers, once an important forum for securing candidate endorsements, no longer make such endorsements at all.

This shift away from legacy media toward more targeted platforms like podcasts allows candidates to more precisely tailor their message. Harris, for example, used her appearance on Charlamagne Tha God’s radio show, simulcast by CNN and MSNBC, to connect with Black male voters. Trump’s efforts to reach young male voters through podcasts have also proven successful, with his appearance on “Flagrant” drawing nearly 5.5 million views on YouTube.

Podcasts, with their ability to build loyal, niche audiences, have become an increasingly attractive platform for candidates. Andy Bowers, co-founder of Spooler Media, explained that podcast listeners often feel a strong personal connection to their favorite shows, likening it to being part of a club. When a candidate appears on these shows, they are welcomed into that intimate space, allowing for a more relaxed and personable interview.

For example, during Harris’s interview on “Call Her Daddy,” she discussed abortion with host Alex Cooper, who asked, “What do you think of Trump saying he will be a protector of women?” Similarly, on “Flagrant,” Trump discussed personal topics like his children and a past assassination attempt, which resonated with his audience.

While traditional news outlets are still covering the 2024 campaign, their role is clearly evolving. ABC’s Rick Klein noted that legacy outlets still play an important role, especially during high-profile events like debates. But for daily coverage, candidates are increasingly going around the mainstream media. Political editor David Halbfinger of The New York Times acknowledged that candidates have long tried to bypass the press, but expressed confidence that legacy media will continue to adapt. “One way or another, the mainstream media does its job,” he said, adding that the 2024 campaign will offer valuable lessons for future elections.

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